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News and commentary from the cross-platform scripting community.
cactus Mail Starting 7/21/97

From: raster@execpc.com (rasterboy);
Sent at 7/21/97; 3:03:52 PM;
Will platforms eventually disappear?

Ok, so ARDI Executor will let me run MacOS software on a PC. And Connectix Virtual PC will let me run Windows on a Mac. Now, can I get a Mac, and lauch Virtual PC so I can run Windows, and then launch Executor, so I can run MacOS software? like, say...Virtual PC!?

Now that's an infinite loop!

From: mike@lava.net (Mike Morton);
Sent at 7/21/97; 8:44:27 AM;
Re:Carl and the Two Guys

> At its core Apple is the myth of the two guys in a garage, believing in themselves and empowering others.

In November 1985, Cary Lu addressed a meeting of the Boston Computer Society's Mac group. He said something which I wrote down:

"The influence of the home hobbyist on the microcomputer industry is essentially over."

I taped it over my desk, and have spent over a decade wondering if anyone will prove him wrong. The ink has faded to the point that I can remember the quote more clearly than I can read it.

> I bet it would be a relief to them to let go of the struggle and get on with their contribution to freedom and friendship and making the world a better place.

Which is more or less what Mitch Kapor did. And I hear Woz is teaching school kids...

P.S. Myself, I'm living in a house with a garage for the first time. It doesn't seem to affect my creativity ;-)

From: cpr@emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland);
Sent at 7/21/97; 1:05:26 PM;
Re:the Java fable piece

I wonder if most of the industry is aware of the cataclysmic race that's occurring between Microsoft and Sun right now. No, not the obvious "my Java's better than your Java", or "who's going to control Java?", but the more subtle and more critical "whose API is going to be used with Java?" race.

It seems to me (a software veteran of 25 years) that the sum total of the Java APIs, particularly the Media APIs, are easily a much more capable, clean, complete, portable computing platform solution than either Windows or MacOS. One could happily ignore the underlying OS platform, once all the Java APIs are in place and working well. (Dave Reed's comments come to mind: is the whole notion of an operating system--beyond the obvious microkernel any machine needs--a tired concept? Quite possibly.)

MS must be acutely aware that if the Java APIs are allowed to mature, that its OSes may become a lot less important. Thus, they're attempting a hijacking of the Java APIs at two levels. The first is to boldly declare "Java is just a language. Use it like any other to program Windows." (Cf. Gates' recent statements.) The second is to make sure that people don't wait for the Java APIs to mature, but use J/Direct instead to hook directly to Windows.

The eventual outcome of the race isn't clear at all, at least from my vantage point. Sun has a huge job ahead of it, finishing all these APIs and making them work reliably on multiple platforms, before it doesn't matter because developers couldn't wait any longer for Sun.

Of course, the irony of the whole "platform independence" claim of Java is that it's almost irrelevant: the universal platform is pretty much Windows, and that's what people will run it on. But if the Java APIs aren't still-born and come to useful fruition, and are widely used in the next 1-2 years, the double irony is that Windows won't matter nearly as much, even though it's almost universally present.

From: rtmd30@email.sps.mot.com (Greg Ferguson);
Sent at 7/21/97; 9:34:17 AM;
Re:Attacks

I'd like to say that I'm sorry you're catching such hell for expressing your opinion. While I'm known as one of the biggest Mac supporters in Motorola, I also believe that it's important that we hear criticism of Apple.

They're not saints. They ARE fallible. Amelio, in my opinion, achieved the goals he set out to do, except for the part about making money. They're in a much better position to keep trying to make money now, than they were and that's important. *I* think he was good for them.

I think that you're not an Apple hater - but that you're tired of their antics - as I am also. As the MacOS has evolved, they've lost their ability to keep it easy to use. The lack of consistency in all parts of the system, from APIs to extensions and libraries, to their built-in help show they don't have anyone with vision at the helm.

And, I don't think that Jobs is interested in Apple. I can see that he's interested in leaching talent, then splitting though.

I don't want to see Apple fail, I want the MacOS to succeed because I don't want to use NT or Windows. I'd rather program a mainframe or unix under XWindows first.

Keep up the good work. We need devil's advocates in addition to insider rumors. You're covering both in turn.

From: kburgin@Next.COM.AU;
Sent at 7/21/97; 9:40:56 PM;
crashes with your scripting site..!!

when I tune into scripting.com with Netscape 3.1 on my Mac it now crashes everytime - on your site only at the minute! god knows what metaphysical message this implies, but if there's something you can fix, that would be great. (I promise...it's your site!)

From: raph@acm.org (Raph Levien);
Sent at 7/20/97; 9:29:49 PM;
Factchecking the Java fable piece

Thanks for posting the SJ Mercury link. The piece did a good job summarizing the reasons (well known to faithful DaveNet readers) to be skeptical of the Java hype.

The article contained several factual errors. TCP/IP is controlled by the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force), not the IEEE.

I felt that the article overplayed the role of the JVM towards the "write once, run anywhere" goal. It _is_ necessary if applications are to ship a single binary. The Java APIs play a far more important role. In an environment that compiles Java programs directly into native code and also supports the Java APIs, then you get code that can be written once and run anywhere, although it would have to be built separately for each platform.

The JVM _is_ necessary if the program is to be shipped as a single object file. However, this is not terribly different than shipping source. It still has to be compiled to run efficiently, and it still reveals most of the internal structure of the program. Further, it seems that bypassing the JVM and going direct to native code could result in some big performance gains.

The Java platform is really three different things: the Java language, the JVM, and the Java APIs. All eight results of the cross-product make sense - a native code J/Direct compiler is Java without the JVM or the Java APIs, 100% pure Java is all three, etc. You can get most of the other combinations by starting from a language other than Java - a very real possibility, especially considering the Java extensions being developed in the academic community.

The popular press has generally missed the point that Java is really three separate components - a trinity, if you will.

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