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News and commentary from the cross-platform scripting community.
cactus Mail Starting 7/25/97

From: mark@mtlake.com (Mark Richer);
Sent at 7/25/97; 8:29:16 PM;
Re:Steve Wozniak and the Garage

> Now, for the first time that I'm aware of, Netscape is selling a client-server combo built on a proprietary closed protocol.

Let's see Netscape's LiveWire is proprietary and has been around for about 1.5 years. Netscape has various proprietary server technologies and proprietary ways in which its client and server communicate. Netscape's client has had some non-standard additions in it and hasn't always been quick or responsive in creating open standards (the way they handled JavaScript is a case in point; now finally a JavaScript seems to be in the works). The irony is that this is the age old approach that hardware and software companies take, but I think it will actually hurt Netscape in the long-run.

From: mike_cohen@pobox.com (Mike Cohen);
Sent at 7/25/97; 9:18:17 PM;
Frontier on Windows

Cooool! I wanna beta test it! I'm desparate to be able to maintain pages on my PC as well as my Mac.

Is there anything like BBEdit for the PC that will work with Frontier? I prefer maintaining my site as text rather than in the frontier.root. I'd *really* love to be able to do the same on my PC.

From: msbinc@rio.com (Sherrie B.);
Sent at 7/25/97; 6:17:21 PM;
Re:A Helpful Tip

Well said!!!! People really should learn how to handle conflicts better, we don't allow *children* to act that way.

From: danb@trellix.com (Daniel Bricklin);
Sent at 7/25/97; 6:28:49 PM;
Trellix back to normal

A whole day with no complaints (only great comments about the product), so I guess our problem with our mailing list is behind us.

The problem started with a much delayed test message, and seemed to end with our apology letter. While most people see only the flame mails during "reply-all to mailing list" storms, we also saw the wonderful, calm letters after the fact and support from other (very experienced) companies that have had similar problems. The Net really does have a lot of wonderful people lurking out there.

It was great seeing you this week. Thanks for all the help!

From: beloy@kinkaid.org (Ben Eloy);
Sent at 7/25/97; 5:12:04 PM;
Thanks!

I wanted to thank you for validating my indexing model--I've never felt so sure about an idea before in my life and I don't have the means to promote it, being a lowly high school student. I was a bit surprised when I discovered that I had over 500 hits on the document! I want to thank you for listening to the little guy, and taking interest.

By the way, why isn't there an HTML tag that allows a web page to insert new navigation commands in browser contextual menus?

From: beno@xs4all.nl (Michel Benevento);
Sent at 7/25/97; 11:47:59 PM;
Who you are

Another important question that needs to be asked is 'how long have you been using e-mail?'. You have to experience the subtleness of the non-spoken word before you are able to effectively say what you mean through e-mail. This takes a while, and before that you might very well be mistaken for a flamer.

From: rsegal@Exchange.MICROSOFT.com (Rick Segal (Exchange));
Sent at 7/25/97; 2:30:44 PM;
Re:Steve Wozniak and the Garage

We still do this and probably more today. We are trying to work with focused industry groups more as well. So, for example, we would have some on-line service providers in for a design preview of some provisioning templates, etc. Also product groups and even the customer units have take this page of our the DRG play book with good success.

I still threw the best parties tho.. <G>

But while I have your attention, we do have several openings for the Barney Doll version 2 conference. You can get plenty of ideas into that product! Have a nice weekend and thank you for flying Microsoft.

From: dwiner@well.com;
Sent at ;
Re:A Helpful Tip

OK, assume that I really am interested in knowing who you are.

How should I ask the question?

Dave

From: cmh@greendragon.com (Chris Hanson);
Sent at 7/25/97; 4:19:54 PM;
Re:A Helpful Tip

Sometimes, when you ask someone, "Who are you," it comes across as arrogant, as a statement of the superiority of the one asking it rather than as a friendly query as to where the other party is coming from. In other words, it's interpreted as "Who are you to question me?" instead of "What's your background in this?"

I know you have issues with people talking about how things seem to them -- in your writing and other things -- instead of how they actually are (or how you intend them), but it's only natural for humans to communicate through shades of meaning and implication rather than in exact, binary terms. We're hardwired to look for those in communication with others; that's why the telephone is often more expressive than email and face-to-face is often better than both.

From: adamrice@crossroads.net (Adam Rice);
Sent at 7/25/97; 2:50:44 PM;
Re:Steve Wozniak and the Garage

Can open standards come from Microsoft? De facto standards, sure. Unless I am missing something, MS has the tendency to take an existing standard and "proprietize" it. Netscape does this too, but since they don't have their fingers in as many pies as MS, it isn't as scary.

Now that I think about it, I guess CDF (is that it?) is open, but it wouldn't surprise me if MS started changing it around on people.

From: mmccue@netscape.com (Mike McCue);
Sent at 7/25/97; 12:02:56 PM;
Re:Steve Wozniak and the Garage

hi dave, FTR we are working very hard to make the marimba protocol an open standard asap. it will usually be the case w/ fringe features that they are initially non-standard. then over time the open standards circle will widen to encompasses these features.

From: amy@home.cynet.net (Amy Wohl);
Sent at 7/25/97; 2:04:31 PM;
Re:A Helpful Tip

I've always published my email address (since I've had one). I love getting email -- good or bad. I just mind when it's totally irrelevant. Like you, I'm not interested in explaining that I have a right to have opinions or that making predictions abou t what's going to happen is, in fact, what I get paid for.

Oh well, it goes with the territory.

I think you're right. I'm asking my next hostile correspondent who he is.

From: dbw11@cornell.edu (David Weingart);
Sent at 7/25/97; 2:39:43 PM;
Re:A Helpful Tip

A great response. When you refocus the conversation on a personal, human level, it gives the person pause. You're not who they think you are.

This simply reinforces my notion that one should never ever say anything in an e-mail that you wouldn't be comfortable saying to that person, in person. Ever.

E-mail gives us the ability to converse with people we've never actually met. The least we can do is be civil to each other. When emotions are inflamed, the best thing you can do is take time out before pressing the send button. There have been a few times when I've used language that upon later reflection turned out to be too strong. But I do try to make sure I'm seeing the other person a person, and not projecting my own feelings onto them.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't express strong emotions, or take issue with a reporter's statements. But it should be done in a civilized manner that respects the person (yes, person!) at the other end.

I've repeated it many times before, and I feel very strongly, that mac users that flame are not helping the cause. Nobody ever bought a mac because someone told them they were stupid for using Windows. When I see an article I think is innacurate, I generally do send feedback. But I take pains to be polite.

I hope that your article focuses some attention on this whole issue of flaming. Nobody deserves to be flamed.

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